Forums

Home » Liferay Portal » English » 2. Using Liferay » General

Combination View Flat View Tree View
Threads [ Previous | Next ]
toggle
How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Henri Koskenranta April 30, 2012 9:39 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare David H Nebinger April 30, 2012 9:59 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Henri Koskenranta April 30, 2012 10:29 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare David H Nebinger April 30, 2012 10:35 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Henri Koskenranta April 30, 2012 11:02 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare James Falkner May 1, 2012 6:53 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Hitoshi Ozawa May 1, 2012 7:33 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare James Falkner May 1, 2012 7:36 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Hitoshi Ozawa May 1, 2012 7:40 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Henri Koskenranta May 1, 2012 11:44 PM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Nagendra Kumar Busam May 3, 2012 2:16 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Jorge Ferrer May 7, 2012 2:58 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Henri Koskenranta May 7, 2012 3:39 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Jorge Ferrer May 8, 2012 2:53 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Henri Koskenranta May 8, 2012 3:06 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Jorge Ferrer May 8, 2012 9:52 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Juan Gonzalez April 30, 2012 10:45 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Henri Koskenranta April 30, 2012 11:08 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Juan Gonzalez April 30, 2012 11:14 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Juan Gonzalez April 30, 2012 11:16 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Henri Koskenranta April 30, 2012 11:26 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Juan Gonzalez May 2, 2012 8:04 AM
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare Hitoshi Ozawa April 30, 2012 2:34 PM
Henri Koskenranta
How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
April 30, 2012 9:39 AM
Answer

Henri Koskenranta

Rank: New Member

Posts: 17

Join Date: September 27, 2011

Recent Posts

We switched to 6.1 because of the new improvements in content sharing across organizations and better html5 video and audio support. Well that was a short lived hope. Sharing content is only possible if you belong to both organizations, it's useless when we try to use it on a corporate level where content can be everywhere and we filter it through global dictionaries and categories. We can't rely on people being members of 100+ organizations.

Also turns out the html5 audio and video support is in alpha stage, they say it will be better in 6.2 and then really support html5 everywhere. Or maybe in 6.3, who knows.

We really really heavily depend on site and page templates which were a brilliant addition in 6.0. Turns out it was too great of a feature so it had to be broken down and made unusable in 6.1. Which really makes me sad.

If I were to create a site using a site template, it will automatically set my new site to get updated (synced) from the site template. Now why on earth would I want this? I want a template as a template so that I can start building my site fast, not from zero. I don't want it to fetch any new updates or revert my site (as the grey bar keeps suggesting) back to the template. Turns out there's a checkbox to disable this syncing, great, why does it have be enabled by default? When I create 100 organizations do I really want to go 100 times through the manage page to disable the checkbox? No.

If I were to create a page using a page template it will automatically enable similar behavior than with sites. Now it won't even allow me to edit the page until I go back to manage pages and disable the checkbox. Great. Why would I want a page that is always synced from a template? I can't think of a reason. We are doing projects that have thousands, close to ten thousand pages. And we rely very heavily on page templates because we always need certain layout, navigation portlet, maybe content display portlets etc. I am not going to tell my customer that they have to go back to the manage pages menu and disable the checkbox whenever they create a new page using a template.

For the latter case we edited the EditLayoutsAction.java, because there was a line saying
1serviceContext.setAttribute("layoutPrototypeLinkEnabled", true);


Setting that to false breaks the template thing totally, because it doesn't copy anything to the new page. So a setting that enables the link between a page and a template is also used to create the page from template in the first place. Way to go. Who would have thought?

Trying to keep the link enabled until the page is created and later disabling it didn't help at all, because it seems the addition to the database is done very late in the action phase (thus it went always disabled to the database before the page was even created). We've spent close to 20 hours on this so I'm not really spending any more time on a feature that should work out of the box. And I really don't want to spent the same amount of time to fix the issue with organizations.

Now you can see my disappointment and it's also because we are on a tight schedule and Liferay is throwing a curveball in every corner. Things that worked great before do not work great (if at all) anymore. Things like managing pages' order are broken (the great page priority-list in 6.0 is removed and drag'n'drop is the only option, too bad it doesn't work at all) etc. I didn't jump on the 6.1.0 bandwagon as we are using EE version and I thought 6.1.10 has gone through enough many iterations and should be ready for prime time. It seems I was wrong.

Please do prove me wrong and show the buttons/settings to disable page and site template automatic syncing by default and I will be pleased.
David H Nebinger
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
April 30, 2012 9:59 AM
Answer

David H Nebinger

Community Moderator

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 13099

Join Date: September 1, 2006

Recent Posts

Henri Koskenranta:
If I were to create a site using a site template, it will automatically set my new site to get updated (synced) from the site template. Now why on earth would I want this?


In the old way, you'd create a site/page template then create sites/pages from the template. If you later find the template needed to be tweaked, rather than changing the 1 template, users would have to manually edit the individual sites/pages based upon the template, and that truly is a pain in the buttocks.

Since the template was only used for the initial creation of the site/page, the template had to be perfect. Any changes and you were stuck w/ manual edits.

In the current implementation, that is no longer the case. You can build sites/pages from the template and, if the template needs to be tweaked, you just do it there and it propagates to the rest of the sites/pages. That's actually a closer fit to the idea of a 'template' anyway, rather than the one-time-use only paradigm of old.

Perhaps it's a matter of managing your templates better? Isolate the 'shared' template items from 'unshared' content, and/or use different templates to provide the right patterns for the specific sites/pages?
Henri Koskenranta
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
April 30, 2012 10:29 AM
Answer

Henri Koskenranta

Rank: New Member

Posts: 17

Join Date: September 27, 2011

Recent Posts

David H Nebinger:

Perhaps it's a matter of managing your templates better? Isolate the 'shared' template items from 'unshared' content, and/or use different templates to provide the right patterns for the specific sites/pages?


All of our clients only need one time copying. We need a starting point from where the site/page can evolve and live it's own life. All Asset publisher have different settings and categories. We can't have same things all over every place. Or have them suddenly change or revert back because someone edited the template.

For instance one of our client has a site template for schools. It has about 30 pages. They will built dozens of schools with that template. It's a starting point from were each school can build their own site. Now you go and edit the template and *poof* 30 schools have new pages they didn't want and have lost tens of new pages they have created because the template decided to override new content. Sounds something I really would like to see in a production environment especially since there's no undo-button.

I've lost changes made to pages through this new syncing mechanism and as I said, all of our content has different settings. We might need just couple of portlets and a layout. That would satisfy our needs of a good template. Now it's impossible. Same for site template, currently we would need one page and a navigation portlet there. That would be a great starting point because our sites are very different from each other.

Instead of poor planning you should have made a checkbox when creating a new site/page where we could select if we want the automatic syncing enabled or disabled. Then we could have hooked the jsp and set it automatically disabled for our projects. Now there's no option and even fixing it through ext-environment seems impossible.

The people that use Liferay to produce content are not nerds or geeks. They need very simple directions of how to create content with Liferay. They do not need to be bothered on how to select a correct layout or how to add a navigation portlet to the page. Just adding a web content display portlet can be difficult for them. So when we say that create a page using this template and then add content here, they will manage that. But if they need to go here and there to add portlets and disable settings, we have lost. And I don't think I have to say again about the revert, it really scares the piip out of me. I don't want any calls from clients when they have reverted their front page to a template page.

Try to get in my shoes instead of saying that the new way is better (which I think no one is using).
David H Nebinger
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
April 30, 2012 10:35 AM
Answer

David H Nebinger

Community Moderator

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 13099

Join Date: September 1, 2006

Recent Posts

Henri Koskenranta:
Try to get in my shoes instead of saying that the new way is better (which I think no one is using).


Sorry, Henri, I wasn't trying to step on your toes. I can feel your pain, and understand where you're coming from. The reality is the 'live' template thing was an often-asked-for feature of the templates. Searching the forums you'll find lots of people complaining about the older 'static' templates, and how the changes they made to the templates were not being reflected...

I was just trying to offer some other options to help you get around the issue...
Juan Gonzalez
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
April 30, 2012 10:45 AM
Answer

Juan Gonzalez

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 3057

Join Date: October 28, 2008

Recent Posts

What problems do you have in html5 video?
Henri Koskenranta
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
April 30, 2012 11:02 AM
Answer

Henri Koskenranta

Rank: New Member

Posts: 17

Join Date: September 27, 2011

Recent Posts

David H Nebinger:

Sorry, Henri, I wasn't trying to step on your toes. I can feel your pain, and understand where you're coming from. The reality is the 'live' template thing was an often-asked-for feature of the templates. Searching the forums you'll find lots of people complaining about the older 'static' templates, and how the changes they made to the templates were not being reflected...

I was just trying to offer some other options to help you get around the issue...


Well I'm happy for them. Would have been great if you had kept the "static" option also or shown how it can be easily implemented. Now we have to start doing production content on next week and I'll have to throw a rabbit out of my hat. I am just frustrated that all I would count as working is not working anymore. And instead of doing productive work on new features I have to patch old ones or create new ways to things more easily. I mean no bad for you, I hope I could find ways to implement the things I was talking about.

I don't know how others are then using Liferay but for our projects all new stuff seem to go the wrong way. And don't get me started on localization. On 5.2.3 it was actually fine (for Finnish). On 6.0 it was a lot worse. On 6.1 it seems like a robot did it or boys did at 4am Saturday (meaning there are translated strings that don't have any relation to the content). I've translated about 1100 strings for 6.1. On 6.0 that was 217. Even with those 1100 I still seem to find non-translated strings when doing normal stuff with content. And I have a list of couple dozen translations to add.

It seems to me that I can less and less recommend Liferay for new projects. In my rant I just hope you would see that too or there would be others feeling the same way. If not, maybe Liferay is wrong product for building normal websites for our clients.
Henri Koskenranta
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
April 30, 2012 11:08 AM
Answer

Henri Koskenranta

Rank: New Member

Posts: 17

Join Date: September 27, 2011

Recent Posts

Juan Gonzalez P:
What problems do you have in html5 video?


I don't remember if there was something about the video (other than there's no easy way to use it on web content). The preview player is not html5 and there's no way to add html5 video/audio in the wysiwyg-editor.

But for audio I would hope that an user can upload any audio file and we could fetch for example an mp3-file and an ogg-file in our content template. Now the user has to submit both mp3 and ogg formats for html5 audio to work on a page.

But I've asked about this from you before so I know the answers. All that would make our work easier and help us be more productive. Now I'm afraid content creators are too lazy to upload the ogg-file and half of visitors won't be able to hear the music. But we'll see.
Juan Gonzalez
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
April 30, 2012 11:14 AM
Answer

Juan Gonzalez

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 3057

Join Date: October 28, 2008

Recent Posts

Henri Koskenranta:
Juan Gonzalez P:
What problems do you have in html5 video?


I don't remember if there was something about the video (other than there's no easy way to use it on web content). The preview player is not html5 and there's no way to add html5 video/audio in the wysiwyg-editor.

But for audio I would hope that an user can upload any audio file and we could fetch for example an mp3-file and an ogg-file in our content template. Now the user has to submit both mp3 and ogg formats for html5 audio to work on a page.

But I've asked about this from you before so I know the answers. All that would make our work easier and help us be more productive. Now I'm afraid content creators are too lazy to upload the ogg-file and half of visitors won't be able to hear the music. But we'll see.


Well, video player is html5 indeed. It has flash player fallback, but it plays perfectly well in html5 browsers as native (html5). What did you see in this?

Yep, about using that contents the "easiest" way could be using as Media Gallery, or opening the view document page.

About seeing this in web content, it's a pending feature. If you want to watch the feature, here it is:

http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-25955

I uploaded a "hack" some time ago to make it working with videos from WYSIWYG. You can try to use the patch if you want....
Juan Gonzalez
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
April 30, 2012 11:16 AM
Answer

Juan Gonzalez

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 3057

Join Date: October 28, 2008

Recent Posts

BTW, next version will have newest version of Xuggler which can be installed from Control Panel:

http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-26138
Henri Koskenranta
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
April 30, 2012 11:26 AM
Answer

Henri Koskenranta

Rank: New Member

Posts: 17

Join Date: September 27, 2011

Recent Posts

Juan Gonzalez P:
BTW, next version will have newest version of Xuggler which can be installed from Control Panel:

http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-26138


That's great emoticon

I think I tested an audio file on chrome or firefox and it rendered a flash player in the preview page.
Juan Gonzalez
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
May 2, 2012 8:04 AM
Answer

Juan Gonzalez

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 3057

Join Date: October 28, 2008

Recent Posts

Henri Koskenranta:
Juan Gonzalez P:
BTW, next version will have newest version of Xuggler which can be installed from Control Panel:

http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-26138


That's great emoticon

I think I tested an audio file on chrome or firefox and it rendered a flash player in the preview page.


Yep, that's why I've said html5 video. Audio wasn't supported for 6.1.0.

But it's in trunk and should be in next EE release (unfortunately guess it won't be in 6.1.1 GA2):

EDIT: HTML5 Audio will be in next 6.1.1 GA2!!

http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-22919
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
April 30, 2012 2:34 PM
Answer

Hitoshi Ozawa

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 7949

Join Date: March 23, 2010

Recent Posts

Agree on most of the points. That's why I decided to keep using 6.0.6 until 6.1.x becomes more usable. The next release, which was at first planned to come out In April, is now planned this month. I'm keeping a watch on how usuable that'll be.
James Falkner
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
May 1, 2012 6:53 AM
Answer

James Falkner

Community Moderator

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 1406

Join Date: September 17, 2010

Recent Posts

Henri Koskenranta:


Instead of poor planning you should have made a checkbox when creating a new site/page where we could select if we want the automatic syncing enabled or disabled. Then we could have hooked the jsp and set it automatically disabled for our projects. Now there's no option and even fixing it through ext-environment seems impossible.


Isn't that checkbox there already? See screenshot below. There's probably a JSP that you could override to turn this off. If I'm misunderstanding things, please let me know -- I'm almost positive there is a way to do what you want.
Attachment

Attachments: Screen Shot 2012-05-01 at 9.52.11 AM.png (45.8k)
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
May 1, 2012 7:33 AM
Answer

Hitoshi Ozawa

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 7949

Join Date: March 23, 2010

Recent Posts

James, is that Liferay 6.1.0 GA1?
James Falkner
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
May 1, 2012 7:36 AM
Answer

James Falkner

Community Moderator

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 1406

Join Date: September 17, 2010

Recent Posts

Hitoshi Ozawa:
James, is that Liferay 6.1.0 GA1?


Yep!
Hitoshi Ozawa
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
May 1, 2012 7:40 AM
Answer

Hitoshi Ozawa

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 7949

Join Date: March 23, 2010

Recent Posts

Seems like I need to do more studying. emoticon

That said, I'm still waiting for the next release. I have my hope high on it!
Henri Koskenranta
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
May 1, 2012 11:44 PM
Answer

Henri Koskenranta

Rank: New Member

Posts: 17

Join Date: September 27, 2011

Recent Posts

We use organizations so that we can structure our website and can more easily manage content rights (we use a heavily modified navigation portlet that always builds the topmost ancestor's navigation and we have a custom layout type "link_to_suborganization"). In 6.1 when we create a site for an organization we have to use site templates. There's no option to create a site without a template. In the page where you create the site you can select from what template you want to create the public or private site. There are no checkboxes, just a dropdown list of site templates (or none).

So no jsp to hook there. Same when you create a page from a template, the create page dialog does not have a checkbox to disable the automatic propagation of changes.

Any other tips? ;)
Nagendra Kumar Busam
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
May 3, 2012 2:16 AM
Answer

Nagendra Kumar Busam

Rank: Liferay Master

Posts: 653

Join Date: July 7, 2009

Recent Posts

Henri Koskenranta:
In 6.1 when we create a site for an organization we have to use site templates. There's no option to create a site without a template.


I hope this is possible, once you create new org > click on Organization Site (right hand side links)> check the create site check box > click save - which enables you to create site without templates for that organization
Jorge Ferrer
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
May 7, 2012 2:58 AM
Answer

Jorge Ferrer

LIFERAY STAFF

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 2771

Join Date: August 31, 2006

Recent Posts

Hey Henri,

First of all, I'm sorry that these changes are causing you trouble. We went through quite a lot of testing both internally and with the help of the Bug Squad to avoid causing any harm, but the issue you mention didn't come up.

If I understand properly the problem happens when creating a site associated with an organization. In the edit organization form, you check the "Create site" checkbox and select a site template from the drop down. What you would like is at that point to be able to see a checkbox to enable or disable the automatic propagation of changes from the site template just like when creating a regular site (as in James' screenshot above), right?

If that's the case, I agree with you, that checkbox should have been added and its absence should be treated as a bug. I have created the ticket here: http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-27157. Since you mention that you are using EE, if you also have support I would advice that you also report this issue through the support system so that it is prioritized even more and you get a backport as soon as it is fixed.

I have also added a comment to the ticket with a possible workaround that might be useful for your case while you wait.
Henri Koskenranta
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
May 7, 2012 3:39 AM
Answer

Henri Koskenranta

Rank: New Member

Posts: 17

Join Date: September 27, 2011

Recent Posts

Jorge Ferrer:
I have also added a comment to the ticket with a possible workaround that might be useful for your case while you wait.


Thank you for your response Jorge! We will test that workaround as soon as we can and hopefully get around the problem. (We use basic licenses so we don't have LESA-access)

Of course a bigger issue is with pages (as they are constantly created), because after you create a page from a template you can't even edit it before you disable the propagation. Would be great if you could implement a similar checkbox to pages creation so that we could choose not to propagate changes by default. I today created manually about hundred pages and after creating all the pages I used the "copy portlets from page"-feature to get all pages in the same starting position. Because almost all pages were root-level pages I couldn't even use the "copy parent page"-feature. I think using a template and manually disabling the checkbox after creating each page would have resulted in about the same amount of clicks in the ui. So a better resolution would be to have a checkbox in the page creation dialog which we could hook through jsp.

Thank you again for taking time to understand our problems!
Jorge Ferrer
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
May 8, 2012 2:53 AM
Answer

Jorge Ferrer

LIFERAY STAFF

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 2771

Join Date: August 31, 2006

Recent Posts

Hi Henri,

I see what you mean with page templates. The workaround for this would be to override EditLayoutsAction, since the link to the page template is hardcoded there. It is not as easy as the case of site templates but it is still possible.

One question I have is, how are you creating the pages? Are you creating them from the Dockbar or from the manage pages UI?

For the latter it should be reasonably easy to add a checkbox, but the former is a simpler menu-like UI where it would not fit easily. Do you think it would be enough to add it to the manage pages UI?
Henri Koskenranta
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
May 8, 2012 3:06 AM
Answer

Henri Koskenranta

Rank: New Member

Posts: 17

Join Date: September 27, 2011

Recent Posts

Hi Jorge,

I posted in my initial post that we did try to do it through EditLayoutsAction. But if we disable the link the new page does not get anything from the template. The link is needed for the initial page content copy to happen. If we changed the link to false, the new page would be blank. We tried first keeping the link true and setting it to false very late in the EditLayoutsAction-class. However the end result was always a blank page, seems the database changes are persisted very late in the Action-phase. If someone is willing to help or hint us to the right direction I'd be grateful.

We have used the manage pages ui and yes there should be space for the checkbox. Creating from the dockbar (I guess you mean the Add -> Page menu) is not possible because our theme and site structure doesn't support it. So we have actually removed the whole Add -> Page-link from the dockbar.
Jorge Ferrer
RE: How 6.1 is making building websites a nightmare
May 8, 2012 9:52 AM
Answer

Jorge Ferrer

LIFERAY STAFF

Rank: Liferay Legend

Posts: 2771

Join Date: August 31, 2006

Recent Posts

You are right, I took a quick look and should have looked further. What you described is happening is because the application of the template is done lazily but that should not be the case when propagation is disabled.

I have created a ticket for this as well: http://issues.liferay.com/browse/LPS-27195. I have added a comment to the ticket with some tips about how to solve the problem with the lazy application of the template. I hope they are useful for you too.